Ep 1: What It Takes To Set Up a Venture Capital Fund in Singapore – Amra Naidoo from Accelerating Asia

Amra: Yeah, so, I was born in Zimbabwe, which is quite far away from here, where we are currently right now in Singapore. Lived there until I was about 13, and because of the political situation and everything that was going on there at the time, my parents decided to move us to Australia, so, that’s where I get my subtle Australian twang from. Yeah, so, lived there for a while, did finished high school, did university and started work in Australia before coming over to Singapore about 8 years ago now. Yeah, almost exactly 8 years. 

Vikram: So, what was the transition to Australia like? Because you were eight, so, you have memories. Do you remember any sort of problems or was it all smooth sailing? 

Amra: So, actually I was a bit older, I think, I was 12 going on 13, obviously a teenager, not as much fun, I think, to be moving to a place that’s so different from where you’ve come from. I don’t know. I think, it was really good, and then there were awesome memories that I have, I mean, like, in high school, for example, I was the only brown person in my high school for like, the first year or so, until another brown person, you know, and in the primary school, there was obviously my brother and then there was one other person and there was a teacher and that was it.

So, coming from Zimbabwe, which, you have people of all different colors and races and everything there and then coming to a place where, I mean, I joke with people that I didn’t realize I was brown until I got to Australia. But it’s true, because I didn’t recognize color in that way, like, obviously I knew it was brown, but you don’t recognize color in that way until it’s like, you know you’re so different from everyone else.

Vikram: Right, I’m guessing it was a hard, sort of, hard transition in that sense, just getting to understand these differences, probably does a bit of psychological adjustment that you have to make. 

Amra: Yeah, I think so. But I also think, you know, we had really good friends. You know, parents were very supportive of us just going out and doing new things and, you know, meeting new people. So, I think the transition, I mean, in particular for my brother was really easy. He is, a hundred percent Australian right now, he has a very thick Australian accent. So, yeah, I think moving at that age, it could have been very difficult, but yeah, we had a lot of family support. 

Vikram: Wow, that’s, so, you’ve had such diverse background in terms of living in Africa and moving to Australia, and then you moved to Singapore eight years ago. And what drove you to move to Singapore? What was that transition like? And what brought you out here? 

Amra: So, at the time, I was in a job that, I mean, I felt it was stagnant. I joked that I was having my quarter life crisis at the time. I was, like, not enjoying work, I just, you know, I wasn’t feeling very motivated at all. I had also just left a job which was not great in terms of mental health, I ended up having a big breakdown and needed some time to recover. So, I think after that, I was, like, ready for whatever is next. And, you know, kind of feeling a bit impatient for whatever is coming next. And a friend of mine, who is Singaporean he was having his farewell barbecue, he was leaving to come back to Singapore, he was like, you know what, you should totally come. You’ll love Singapore. And that just kind of spurred me to be like, oh my god, I have never considered Singapore, let me start reaching out to people, what is it like to live there? I mean, I had only been in Singapore for like a day stopper before that. And I got in contact with a friend who said, the best way to find a job here is to physically be here. UN Women has internships, why don’t you apply for an internship, and then use the time during your internship to network and, you know, see what it’s like here. I have always wanted to work for the UN. That’s been my, I mean, I chose my degree because I wanted to work for the UN. That is how much,

Vikram: What was your degree in? 

Amra: Political science, and then, I also did business management as well, so, I had two degrees. And the business management was just to like, hedge my bets, you know. If it doesn’t, if my diplomacy career doesn’t work out, at least I’ve got business. So, yeah, I ended up applying for the internship and I got it. It was a three-month internship, and I remember when they were offering me the role, they were like, you know typically the internships are for new grads to don’t have any work experience at all. You’ve already had a few years of work experience, so, we just want to be clear and set the expectation that you’re not going to get a job with us. And I was like, no, it’s fine, oh my god, I’ve always wanted to work for the UN, even if it’s like, literally a non-paid internship. This is, like, a dream come true. And so, yeah, that’s initially how I came out to Singapore a month into my internship, my manager resigned, and I applied for her job and three months turned into, two years at UN Women and eight years in Singapore. 

Vikram: Wow, so, that worked out pretty well, which, you know, this is, I find this pretty amazing that some people would probably would have said no, if I’m not going to get a job at the UN after these three months of unpaid internship, then no, I don’t want this. Some people say, well, this is an entry to something that I want, and I don’t know what’s going to happen afterwards, but, and generally the people who take that risk, it seems like, things kind of work out for them. And so, that’s pretty amazing. And so, when you first moved here, did you like it? Did you, like the weather’s different, and how did you find that adjustment? 

Amra: When I first moved here, and I think this is a good thing, I thought I only had three months here, right. Because I was like, I’m on a I’m on the clock, and worst-case scenario, the internship does not get extended, nothing happens at the end of this three months, I need to go back home. So, I was like, I’m going to make the most of these three months. I literally sold everything, did as much as possible, during that period of time. I remember when I was coming over, a group of friends or like, party hard type friends, so, obviously got straight into the nightlife in Singapore.

Vikram: Which is amazing, or was amazing, pre-COVID. 

Amra: And I’m naturally a night owl as well, so, I love being out at night. 

Vikram: And then, when did you start to do Accelerating Asia, which is what you’re doing now? And we would love to sort of learn more about what that is and what you’re currently doing. 

Amra: Yeah, so, Accelerating Asia started 2018, so, it’s almost three years for us. The reason that we started it was, so, my co-founder, Craig and I used to work for another accelerator, it was a corporate backed accelerator and that’s how we met. That program ended up being shut down, and we had a lot of people in the ecosystem reached out to us and say, you can’t let this thing die, you know, it’s an important part of the ecosystem. And so, I think it was literally like, the 30th of June, we were, you know, the corporate program, 1st of July, we were Accelerating Asia, the two of us. And we were trying to figure out, you know, how do we make an accelerator program independent. They have been other independent programs that have come before us, JFDI (Joyful Frog Digital Incubator) is a really notable one in Singapore, and I think they just have a really important part of the ecosystem because they kind of paved the way for those kinds of programs here. And we definitely consulted with the team, when we were setting up Accelerating Asia, you know, tell us the ugly things, what didn’t work for you guys? What would you do differently? And I think the fundamental problem for accelerator programs is revenue. You can’t charge the startups, really, cash and you can’t rely on exits from the fund, or, you know, if you take equity from those program fees, in order to drive your revenue for the long term. So, you need to have other sources of revenue in order to maintain your independence. And then, being able to balance that while running a fund, while running the accelerator program and not being purely corporate backed or purely government backed and maintaining your independence is part of the challenge as well. So, yeah, that’s essentially what we were trying to create is an independent program, and so, currently what we have now is three parts to what we do. We have the accelerator program, which works with pre-Series A companies from around the region, primarily Southeast Asia and South Asia focus. We have a three-month program that we take them through and we run this twice a year. Separate to that, we have a fund. So, the fund invests in all the companies that we take through the accelerator program and then can double down on some of the top performers. And then finally the third part of what we do, which kind of solves that revenue issue that I was talking about is we have a consulting arm. So, it works with multinationals, governments, development organizations pretty much any organization that wants to engage with the startup ecosystem in some way. And we run programs for them. So, it could be accelerator programs, it could be helping them with deal flow, or, engaging them in some of the existing work that we are doing. Yeah, so, those are the three parts of what we’re currently doing. 

Vikram: Yeah, so, you must be very busy doing a lot of different things. Maybe, we can talk about your experience in raising a fund, the good, bad, and ugly of doing that in Singapore. 

Amra: Oh man, there is a lot of ugly. Okay, so, full disclaimer, first, is, this is the first fund that I’ve set up and obviously I don’t have any comparison with other markets. So, I can definitely give my experience about Singapore. Good, bad and ugly, I think the good is that, you know, the regulatory frameworks here are super streamlined. The government is really supportive of new businesses, new funds, and things like that. In fact, when we were first setting up our fund, we got a license which is called the VCFM license, Venture Capital Fund Manager license, and it was a second edition of what the license used to look like. So, we got through in the second edition, the first edition was quite hard to qualify and they got a lot of feedback from different organizations and then they changed the process. And so, that’s what we ended up getting. And the idea behind the license that we have is that it’s a lot more streamlined. It is tailored for people who are first time fund managers, for people who are setting up small funds as well. Ours is a relatively small fund. And then, you know, as you scale your funds, so, if your fund does become bigger or it does become, you know, things do become a little more complex, you can go back and apply for more permissions or just update them on things that you’re doing. So, I think it has been a really streamlined process, I think, it took like, literally a couple of months for us to get approved for that license. Once you have that license, you can just go out and start. 

Vikram: That sounds relatively easy, in that sense. 

Amra: I guess, the challenge with raising a fund comes from, probably, what you would see in any of the market and that’s the fund managers, like you, yourself, right. Do you have the networks in order to fundraise? Do you have a, you know, a solid investment thesis as well? Are you credible? Do you have a track record? Basically, are you able to attract capital to what you’re doing? 

Vikram: How many venture capital funds do you think there are in Singapore? 

Amra: Oh my god. I think, there are so many. 

Vikram: Hundreds, thousands? 

Amra: I would say, hundreds, and I, there are more, like, literally every day, I speak to people who were talking about I’m going to set up a fund. Like, why? It’s so hard, if I knew how hard it was, I don’t know if I would have set up a fund.

Vikram: Because I always wonder, now everyone has a fund in Singapore, and I always wonder, where the capital allocation is going to. Because you don’t really see that many investments really happening.  Or, do you think they’re happening, we just don’t know about them? 

Amra: I mean, maybe, because I’m in the space, but I see a lot of investments happening. I think, there was certainly a slow down with COVID, a lot of funds were kind of wait and see, you know, see how the portfolio companies are performing as well, or, allocating a large amount of capital to existing portfolio companies rather than deploying out to new companies. So, COVID definitely impacted that. And I think, there was also now much more emphasis on profitability, you know, how quickly a company’s going to get to that compared to pre-COVID days where, you know, I think, it was little bit of out of control and we’ve seen it, seen examples of that, you know, globally. So, yeah, I don’t know if that answers the question. 

Vikram: Yeah, it does, and like, how did you go about fund raising? Who does you approach? Who are your LPs (Limited Partnerships)? 

Amra: So, our fund, again, I mentioned is quite small, which means that primarily our investors or LPs are angel investors, high net worth individuals, some family offices and institutions as well. But primarily individuals. Reason for that is, okay, so, when we first designed the fund, we wanted to give access to people who are in our network, you know, they came from our old accelerator days, we wanted to involve them in what we were doing now. Get those mentors on board, and those, I guess, if you talking startup lingo would be the friends, family, or fools. But I have to say, they were our biggest champions, you know, these are people in the startup ecosystem already, who literally put their money where their mouth is and backed us from the start. And, you know, they’re still really involved in everything that we’re doing now. I guess, the second edition of, you know, investors that came in were probably from a wider network. The challenge with setting up a fund, is that you need to show a track record. And so, even though, you know, I’ve managed programs before, Craig and I have managed investments before, we have technically track record, it’s not our fund. We weren’t managing our fund. And so, we needed to show that we had a track record with managing our own fund. And when we were first starting out, we were like, oh, you know, we’ll raise, typically at that time, they were like, $10, $25 million funds as first funds. I was like, that’s a lot of money. But second, we got to a lot of feedback from, you know, very experienced VCs in the ecosystem saying, raise a small fund first, do it quickly, show you have a track record and then go out and do the bigger fund. You know, you’re going to attract a lot more capital that way and you’re going to show that, you know, you’ve got existing investments and that they’re all doing really well. So, that was our strategy. And that’s kind of why we have the funds that we have now. So, it’s a $5 million fund, and I guess, the allocation or the investors that are coming on board are coming on board because, well, it’s tough to be an angel investor, right? It’s really hard to do it by yourself, you need to ensure that you’re getting in front of enough deals in order to choose the right companies, then you’ve got to manage the portfolio yourself, do all of the paperwork and everything. Whereas with us, they probably invest the same amount that they would invest in one startup in our fund, and then, they get access to about 50 startups across the portfolio. They can be as hands-on, as they like, you know, through the accelerator program or they could be like, you know what, just give me my quarterly reports, and tell me who are the three companies that you think I should double down on. 

Vikram: And is your fund, tied to the accelerator program that you have? And do you only invest in those? How was that set up? 

Amra: Yeah, so, it’s very tied together and that’s actually how we save a lot of costs on the fund side. So, the fund really leverages the accelerator program. So, the fund makes an investment into each of the companies coming into the program.

Vikram: Right. So, that’s probably, it’s usually the chicken or egg situation, right, where you want the deal flow in order to raise a fund, but you kind of need the fund to get deal flow. So, I guess with you, you sort of started with the programming, with the accelerator program, because of your previous background. And then, that sort of led to then saying, okay, we have enough credibility now, and enough deal flow to go out to angel investors to say, put in a $50,000 check or a $100,000 check because we’ll do the whole work for you, right? And what’s the commercials of the fund? Is it like, what’s the shell, the life of the fund and the carry, et cetera? 

Amra: So, it’s a 10-year fund, which is funny, because we always get, people were like, oh my gosh, 10 years is so long. Well, we’re making really early stage investments. So, hopefully, I mean, obviously we really hope that there’ll be exits long before 10 years, but what it ultimately means is that 10 years is when the fund winds down. But if we get exits before that, we can pass them on to our LPs, so, it’s not that your money is held up for 10 years. Though, disclaimer, you should assume that it is. So, that’s the life of the fund. The carry, so, it’s a typical 20% carry, and everything else is pretty standard. Like, so, management fees as well, ours is below average, we say 1.8% across the life of the fund, but in actual fact, is probably going to be less than that. Because it leverages the accelerator program.

Vikram: Right, and since you had never done fundraising before, what was your first fundraising experience like? Were you just going to people saying, hey, we have this, we want to raise a fund, give us a check?

Amra: You know, it’s funny, I actually have a background in sales and in beauty and cosmetics. And I think, I learned a lot, like, basically everything that I was doing, you know, selling Chanel to people is exactly the same as selling a fund. It’s the same principle, right? You just need to make people feel comfortable with the idea. And I also think about, I hate being sold, I hate like, sleaziness of sales people and I never want anyone to feel that way with us. And I’m also brutally honest with it, I’m like, you know, as a 10-year you know, fund, you may not get any of your money back. Like, we may not get any of our money back. So, I want people to be really educated when they come into the whole process. Because at the end of the day, it’s a really high-risk investment. So, hopefully, I guess, my style is like, to be really upfront and honest, because at the end of the day, they’re also investing in you, as a fund manager. They want to know that you are considering, you know, their scenarios as well. But yeah, fundraising for a fund was really hard for me at first, because I used to get really nervous about talking to people who have money, you know, like, there’s a power dynamic thing. But I think, over the past year or so, I’ve shifted my perspective because it’s not like I’m going out, it’s not like, you know, when I used to work for UN Women, you know, we did fundraising as well, but it’s donations. So, you’re always going out with your hands out, asking for money, you’re not necessarily providing much in return, it’s not an equal partnership. Whereas this, I had to shift my perspective, I am like, no. We’re investing their money for them, they’re going to get something in return, hopefully we all get something in return. So, I think it was more of a mind shift.  

Vikram: Your comfort level of fundraising for the fund has, I’m guessing, over the last couple of years, improved, more comfort level, more confidence. What was your first sales pitch? 

Amra: Well, you know, it’s funny. My first one, I think was, I didn’t even know I was doing it actually. Because it was someone who was, you know, involved with our program before, and it was literally just a catch-up and she was asking us, you know, what are you guys up to? And I was just like, you know, telling her the story of what we’re doing and the fund and everything, she is like, oh, you know, I’m going to bring my husband next, because we, you know, are you still raising for your fund? Yes, oh, you know, like, well, so, I didn’t even realize I was doing it at the time and I think, that was actually good, because it was a good confidence boost that I can bring someone into the fund without feeling, like, I’m actually pushing them to come in.

Vikram: Right, so, clearly, they saw the value in what you were creating from the programs, so, maybe, we can shift gears to the program. You have, I think, you were mentioning you have 40 companies in your portfolio now, over the last three years. And that’s quite, I mean, that’s a lot, that you’re doing what 13, 14 companies a year, which is pretty high volume. And the thing I noticed was, a lot of the startups that are in your portfolio are from all over the world. So, I’d love to find out about where they’re from, and sort of like, what attracts them to come to a program in Singapore. 

Amra: Yeah, oh my goodness, 40 companies. It’s a lot, so, we take in about 10 companies, every batch, like, every cohort and we run it twice a year. But we’re actually looking at expanding that, so, this incoming batch, will be the most amount of startups we’ve taken through. So, there’ll be about 13, which is really exciting because it means that we’ve also grown as a team, to be able to support that many companies coming in. So, about 60% of the companies come from Southeast Asia, the rest come from South Asia, and other. And by other, I would specifically say, typically, they’re Australian companies that, you know, want to come up to this region to expand, or maybe the company is a Delaware C-corp, for example, and they’ve got existing operations in their, you know, around the region. The idea is that, the companies don’t necessarily need to be headquartered here, but we’re looking for, why. Why this region? There are plenty of other accelerator programs in your home region, like, why are you coming to this particular one? So, that’s kind of the first question, if they’re not based here. In terms of the startups themselves, they are all-industries technology companies, but all industries, we’ve got literally everything. I’m thinking of something that we don’t have, beauty, no, we’ve got beauty, marketing, HR, med-tech, health-tech, like, logistics, manufacturing, everything. Why do they come to Singapore? So, I mean, it is a really good question. Singapore is the hub of the region, governance structures, funding, networks, headquarters, of all these big regional companies, even global companies are here, all in Singapore. So, I think when a company or a startup gets to a certain stage, and they’re looking for that next level of funding or access, they have to come to Singapore.

Vikram: One of the things I noticed about your portfolio, is that, it’s very diverse, in terms of male versus female, it’s also diverse in terms of industry, but also, I think, I saw something on your website or not, where it hits a lot of the UN sustainability goals. Was that by design or that sort of just happened?

Amra: A little bit of both. The intention was there from the start that we wanted to create something that was giving back in some way, and I mean, it’s in our guiding statements. So, we believe that entrepreneurs are one of humanity’s greatest catalyst for positive change. And so, we really believe that, and so, it naturally ties in to the UN Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs). I think, also by nature of where we’re operating in the world are so many big problems to be solved here. And entrepreneurs are often at the forefront of that. However, we don’t actually lead with, you know, the SDGs or impact is something that is our primary focus. And the reason that we don’t do that is because there’s still preconceived ideas about what impact means. People often think, you know, when you’re investing in something with social impact, you’re compromising your financial returns. And that’s not the case, but it’s a barrier, right, that we need to overcome. So, that’s part of the reason why we don’t lead with impact. The second reason is, when we’re working with entrepreneurs around the world, a lot of them don’t know about the UN SDGs, or impact investing, or like, you know, all of these global standards about how they should be measuring their impact. They are just out there building a business and solving a problem. And so, we don’t want it to be kind of, exclusive. We want to, you know, bring everyone in, it’s more of an idea of, we want to invest in fundamentally good businesses and good ethical founders, and it doesn’t matter if you don’t know about the SDGs, or you don’t do that. We can, you know, help you if you wanted to pursue that pathway. 

Vikram: Right, so, it sounds like, it is more of a natural occurrence that happens because of your core values and because of sort of your, you know, I guess, mission of the fund. Now, that’s great, and then, I also noticed, we have a common friend, Chia, who is part of the, 

Amra: Yeah, Shaper Impact Capital.

Vikram: Yeah, can you tell us about that? I was wondering, what is this Shaper Impact Capital? 

Amra: Yeah, so, he is going to love this, shout out to Chia. He is one of the founders of Shaper Impact Capital, which is essentially a network of impact investors, working to connect impact investment capital to impact startups. And that’s part of the challenge where, you know, there are a lot of impact startups out there, there are a lot of impact investors, they don’t often find each other. And so, that’s kind of what that’s for. I think, the network is about, it’s definitely over a hundred investors that are now involved, literally in coordinating this entire thing. So, scouting for startups, working with impact investors, working with mentors as well, globally. And then we’ve got, you know, a huge database of impact investors that we connect these startups to.

Vikram: And is this part of the world economic forum? Can you tell us about the relationship there? 

Amra: Yeah, so, Shaper Impact Capital is an initiative run by global shapers, and global shapers are kind of the youth community of the world economic forum. 

Vikram: And I hear the world economic forum is coming to Singapore this year?

Amra: Very exciting, isn’t it? 

Vikram:  What’s going on over there? 

Amra: Well, I don’t know, it’s all top secret. 

Vikram: Are you involved in any of that? 

Amra: I hope to be, I mean, I’m still, I’m a global shaper for the Singapore hub. So, basically there are global shaper hubs all around the world and they’re all driving impact and running local projects in their communities. Singapore global shapers hub is obviously hoping to be involved in the forum in some way, and I think, there are a lot of opportunities to. And it’d be really great that more people understand about what this event could potentially mean for this region, because I think, it’s one of the first times it’s such a big event is coming to this part of the world, in particular to Singapore. It is a real opportunity to showcase all the incredible things going on here, I mean, just purely alone, logistically, if we look at how many people coming from overseas, world leaders, politicians, you know, heads of States and things like that, coming to tiny little Singapore, and the coordination involved with that, especially during, you know, a pandemic, it was a huge opportunity for the region.

Vikram: Yeah, I think that’s such a huge development because when I think of world economic forum, in my head, I picture, Davos, in the winter, snow, ice, people wearing warm clothes and very sort of bougie. 

Amra: And then think of Singapore, everybody with their slippers, shorts. 

Vikram: It’s hot, it’s shorts and flip-flops, at least that’s what I wear. And so, that’s a pretty big dramatic change. Why do you think they chose to move to Singapore? 

Amra: Yeah, I mean, I just look at how Singapore has managed the pandemic. It’s amazing, and I know so many people and myself included, where we look around the world and we’re like, oh my goodness. I’m so glad I’m in Singapore. And it’s the same reason, like, you’re looking for a country that is stable, has managed things really well in particular, you know, with health wise and Singapore is great at events, I mean, look at the F1, how that’s managed here. I remember when I first went to the formula one, I don’t know if you’ve seen this, but there’s a part where you go underground and then they’ve literally created a human roundabout, with like, exit signs, people, like, the police directing people, you can only go one way. So, if you miss your exit, you need to go the whole way round because there, it’s incredible. And it’s just that kind of that mindset, the logistics and making things happen in Singapore. Yeah, that’s world class. 

Vikram: So, I think clearly there is the, you know, the logistics part of it, and the pandemic, and the management of that. But it sounds like, to me, it’s also a bit of a sign of, sort of the center of gravity is slowly shifting towards, it has been shifting towards Asia, but maybe this is, you know, sort of a part of that, like, hey, this region of the world was growing, and we need to be part of like, the future as opposed to being in a place where it sort of represents the past.

Amra: Yeah, I mean, they call Singapore as the Switzerland of Asia, right.

Vikram: Okay, and then, since you’re heavily involved in the startup ecosystem here in Singapore and in the region, what do you feel is lacking or missing or things that can be improved to create more companies? 

Amra: I think there are a lot of initiatives going on right now, with the government in particular, to create new companies because of the pandemic and like, really spurred on by that, you know, obviously people losing their jobs and they want to create a culture, which is entrepreneurial and, you know, maybe not necessarily leaving their jobs to create new businesses, but having an entrepreneurial way of thinking. So, I think there’s a lot of new things starting from there, I think, one thing that we see as a difference between Singapore and some other in particular, emerging markets around the region is that obviously Singapore has a lot of government backing. There’s a lot of ways for local startups to access funding or, you know, access programs and things to help them. We don’t see that in many emerging markets, but what we do seeing emerging markets is a level of grit. And I don’t think you can replicate that without taking away all the resources, you know, so, it’s kind of, it’s a balance where there is that kind of level of grit or, I don’t like using the word hustle, because I feel like it’s so overused, but they’re always, you know, they’re adaptable, you know, more likely to think of, okay, plan A didn’t work out, there is plan B, there is C, D, E, F, you know, like, they’re always going to try and find a way. So, I think it’s more of a culture, and I think that, yeah, that’s kind of, maybe what’s different. I don’t think it’s a good or a bad thing because ultimately in some of these markets, there is no support. So, you could have a great founder, who has hustled their way, you know, and created a great business and they may never get access to funding. Because they just can’t, you know, they don’t have the networks, they don’t have the resources, they can’t get it out. So, yeah, I think there are pros and cons with that.

Vikram: So, you’ve worked with a lot of startups in the region, any horror stories, or, you know, juicy stories about things that have gone wrong? 

Amra: Yes, short answer, yes. I think, when you’re working across so many different markets, so many different industries, so many different age groups as well, like, you know, we’ve got really young founders, we have got like, all the spectrum and then cultures as well, oh my goodness. There is bound to be a lot of interesting stories. I find though, that I don’t get as stressed as I used to about them, and you know, maybe this is something, so, I have a coach as well. I have an executive coach and he’s like, trust in your ability to just be able to solve the problem, you know, something bad is going to happen. Don’t need to worry about what it is, but when it comes up, you’ll be able to solve it. I think, the most common ones have to do with like, predatory angel investors, who, you know, invest a relatively small amount on the cap table and take a relatively large amount of equity in those businesses. And you know, seeing as we’re often the first institutional investor to come in, we have a lot of work to do in terms of, well, tidying up their cap table, tidying up their governance structures and everything that’s going on in order to make them interesting for the institutional investors that are coming through. So, we often have to have, and you know, thankfully, right now it’s mainly Craig, my co-founder and national entrepreneur-in-residence who is front facing all of these conversations. But we often have to have hard conversations with some of these angel investors, to ultimately negotiate them down and say, you know, you could have 40% of a business that’s worth absolutely nothing, because it can never raise any more money after this, or, you can have 10% of something big. So, these are some of the conversations that we have. Thankfully, most of them are not intentionally predatory, some are, most of them, it’s just, you know, they don’t know, the founder doesn’t know, it’s like, oh yeah, 40% sounds right. And that’s how they go about it, and so, it’s an education on both sides. But where it is a situation where an investor just doesn’t want to budge, unfortunately, it means that we can’t invest in those companies, and we can’t take them through our program because we know that they’re not going to go anywhere after that. So, those, I think, are probably the most difficult conversations because it’s not necessarily the founder, right, they have been doing really well. It’s someone else who you’ve brought into your business as an investor that just wouldn’t budge.

Vikram: When I look at what you’re doing, and look at you, I always ask myself, is this something you always wanted to do when you were, I don’t know, in university, you wanted to work for the UN, that seems like, that was sort of like, the dream. And now that you’re doing this, which I think is highly impactful, right, you’re building businesses, you’re empowering people, you’re empowering them to build more businesses. So, this could be the ultimate sort of impact that you can create in the world. Sometimes, do you sort of look at what you’re doing and go, wow, like, how did I end up here? 

Amra: Oh yeah, all the time. I think, in particular, I noticed it when I’m doing school talks or, you know, university talks and things like that. And I always get the question about, oh, you know, I’m studying this, you know, I’m studying accounting right now, whatever it is, it’s like, they feel like, it’s so binary, and that’s the only thing that they’ll ever be able to do. And I remember that, because when I was choosing my degree, I was like, oh, you know, this is going to change my life. Like, whatever I study right now is going to be the pathway that I end up for the rest of my life, without realizing that, no, it’s not, you know, you can change, you can adapt as long as you’re willing to learn. And I always joke with people that, you know, I mean, especially when you look in the VC space, right, it’s predominantly male. I often go into the room and I’m the only female in there. Not only am I the only female, but I mean, right now I’m wearing a lipstick, t-shirt, I’ve got bright red lipstick on like, a flowy leopard print skirt. I’m in your face, you know, like, it’s pretty obvious that I’m not like everyone else in that room. And I used to feel, really, I guess not, like, embarrassed about it, but like, trying to fit in, you know, kind of like, dulling myself down to like, or trying to portray myself in a certain way, so that I fit a certain, like, the same background that everyone else has. But the reality is I do not have a finance background. Actually, I pretty much almost failed accounting the first time I did, like, when I did it in university. And here I am, like, what a couple of years later, not a couple years later, I’m older than that, but, you know, managing a fund. So, I think, you can always learn what you need to learn as long as you’re adaptable and, you know, wanting to be there. So, I totally agree. I would have never seen myself in this position. 

Vikram: No, that’s great, and you’re really young. I mean, you are in terms of like, where the, like, generally when, you are right. Like, when you go into this industry, it’s predominantly male and it’s predominantly not very young people. And so, you sort of like, hit all the, you’re very young, you’re a female, that is not your status quo background. So, I think, you have an amazing personality and I think you’re going to do amazing things. 

Amra: Thank you, I really appreciate that. I think, I just hope that there are other people who listen to this and they’re like, you know what, I don’t fit the mold of whatever it is that they were looking at right now. And they feel like, they can just go and try, you know, worst case, it doesn’t work out, but at least you tried. 

Vikram: Great advice. Okay. Thank you. We hope you have gathered some insights today and I’m more inspired to pursue that dream of yours. Join our community of 1 million entrepreneurs to be by joining our Draper Entrepreneur Network Slack channel. Connect, ideate, and create a wave of exciting new ventures together. We have a whole ecosystem to empower you from venture funds, education programs, business services, physical locations, and most importantly, a great bunch of amazing people wanting you to succeed. Link is in the description below. This podcast is jointly produced by Draper Startup House and the team at The Financial Coconut. Follow us on our socials and visit one of our physical locations wherever you are today.