Ep 3: What Is It Like to Start a Food & Beverage Business in Singapore? – Dustin and Iris from Monument Lifestyle

Dustin: Hey everyone, my name is Dustin. I’m a co-founder of Monument Lifestyle and Duxton, out here in Singapore, originally from California, down in San Diego. Before we moved to Singapore, we were living and working in New York. I was working for a company called MakerBot, 3D printer company. And then, when I got hired by the company that brought us out here, or, that brought me out here, it was a Seattle-based startup called BitTitan. 

Iris: And my name is Iris, so, I am the other co-founder of Monument and Duxton, just to clarify, it’s Duxton, D U X T O N, not Dustin. A lot of folks asked us why we would name it after ourselves and we did not, so, folks who live outside of Singapore, that is a road here in Singapore, just for clarification. Like, Dustin was saying, we moved out here from New York City, we actually spent probably the longest part of our lives living anywhere, which is probably San Francisco. And that’s where we got exposure to non-profits, to the tech world, to finance, and then moved to New York because I started a tech company out in New York City for HR and payroll. And then, found another opportunity here in Singapore. And at that point in time, we didn’t have children, we didn’t have a mortgage, we didn’t have anything tying us down physically to the States and we thought it would be a really cool adventure. Whenever you are in the States, especially seven, eight years ago, everyone talks about what’s happening in Asia or like, the new wave of Asia and the technology coming out, innovation coming out, and we were so curious that we wanted to see for ourselves. Is all of that really hype or is it real? And so, we’re like, okay, F-it, if in the next week Dustin finds a job in Singapore, because I got an offer first of coming out here to help in the Asian market, alright, let’s do it. So, essentially once we had this discussion, three months out, we were in Singapore. When to be completely honest, we had no idea where it was. We had to look at a map.

Vikram: So, you moved here without really knowing anything about Singapore. 

Dustin: Yeah. 

Iris: Nothing. Absolutely nothing. 

Dustin: We knew that English was the primary language, so, that checked a major box for us. Although, we’ve lived abroad before, after college we were teachers in Japan and so, we were up for an adventure and, I think, this was the next one. 

Iris: We’ve lived in Japan, also in Germany together, and then it was actually between Singapore or South America. And so, we both speak Spanish, so, we thought that would be a fun adventure. But in terms of market development, and where things were moving, no one talks about how fast and how interesting things are happening South America, maybe real estate, but not technology. And so, that’s why Asia won it out in terms of, okay, people to Singapore speak English, and it just seemed like a really interesting, cool adventure of discovering Southeast Asia. 

Dustin: The fact that we didn’t know where it was on the map, made us more curious. 

Iris: Nor did anyone else that we know, let me tell you. 

Dustin: My parents will still be like, I don’t know, ask something that is totally unrelated, but I have to empathize because, it’s okay, I get it. 

Iris: It’s not China, it’s not Malaysia. We really have to explain this.

Vikram: It sounds like, when Anna came to LA, we went for our wedding and she went to the hairdresser and the hairdresser was like, so, where are you from? She said, oh, Netherlands, where do you live? oh, Singapore, and the hairdresser goes, oh yeah, so, China and she goes, no, Singapore is not China, and so, you’re from China. 

Iris: Absolutely.

Vikram: But that says a lot about you guys, because clearly very adventurous, well, used to be, now that we are parents, maybe, 

Dustin: That’s an adventure in and of itself, 

Vikram: But when I first met you, you were working for like, a payments company.

Iris: I was, yeah, so, my former background was in payments. So, I worked for a Dutch company first, called Global Collect, and then I worked for a British company called Worldpay, I helped to start their office in San Francisco. And then I started my own company, which is a startup in New York City, actually some of my clients were executives at different places within the US and San Francisco. And from that, I think, the next adventure was either to start another tech venture in New York City, or, I got a call from my former boss at Worldpay, to be like, hey, do you want to help out in the Asian market for a couple of years? It’ll be a piece of cake compared to starting a startup, and you could just take a breather for two years and then do your next venture. And so, we were like, actually that sounds like fun. 

Vikram: And so, since you moved here without knowing where Singapore was, and that was four or five years ago, how’s the journey been? Because both of you came here working for a company and then transitioned into starting your own thing. What’s that journey been like? And what’s been your insights about Singapore and starting a business here?

Dustin: It’s been overall a very positive and amazing experience, I would say. I think, from the journey that we’ve taken, we’ve met so many amazing individuals who have been helpful within the F&B industry, within the fashion industry, that have opened a lot of doors and opportunities for us. And just learning about the different personalities, I think, has been one of the most enjoyable aspects of it. We always talk about how in F&B, from our experience, people can be so humble about their achievements, and where they work, and what they’ve done that we were just blown away by it. And I think, that’s one of the things that really stuck with us as far as enjoying it, even up until now. 

Iris: And I think, it really helped to go into it with a mindset that you’re here to do really well at your job, but then two year’s time to then start your own venture. It wasn’t ever that we were landlocked or like, just locked to the position of a corporate role that we were going to do. We always knew that, yes, we’ll help these businesses grow as much as possible, we’ll have a great time doing it, we’ll build relationships, but we’re going to do something of our own after two years. And I think, knowing that always made it, it wasn’t a corporate rut at any point, it was still really interesting, really fascinating. I think, here, doing payments, especially in Singapore, you’re never actually in Singapore, like, you’re in Korea, meeting with LINE Pay, you’re in India, meeting the next tech companies. And it’s how I met Eva Group. And so, I just think, two years gave us a really great lens as to what’s happening in Asia, who the coolest companies are in this region of the world, because they all want to be like, Netflix. So, I think like, Netflix is one of the biggest companies in San Francisco, like, trying to understand how these Asian companies can become the next huge unicorns, was really fun. Because it wasn’t like, this is what I want to do for the next 20 years of my life. It was like, I would love to help as much as I can. And then, through those, Dustin and I had so many like, fun little adventures that we found our own niche of wanting to have something tangible that we related to, every trip that we made when we traveled here in Singapore. 

Vikram: Yeah, and I loved the company, and the business, and the brand you guys are building, like, how do you describe your business to someone who’s, someone like Reggie. Because, there is a F&B component, there is a retail component, there is a fashion component, there is a community, media content. There is so much going on. What are you guys building? 

Dustin: I don’t know. I think, one of the passions that stuck with us, Iris mentioned earlier, we spent a large part of our adult life living in San Francisco, where there’s a really amazing coffee culture. When we first moved out here to Singapore, whether it’s local coffee or coffee brought in from Australia or Europe, we felt like, it was something that was different from what we had back home. And we always, I had always wanted to do something coffee related and it just hadn’t taken shape in terms of what that concept would be. Fast forward to a year and a half, having lived in Singapore and we had so many wonderful memories of places that we would go to, in Vietnam, in Thailand and shops that friends would say, you have to go here or you have to stop by this place, whether it’s a good spot for shopping or a great place for coffee, and we realized, there isn’t a place that we feel that excited about here in Singapore. And that I think, 

Iris: Or at least that reminded us of home. That gave us that nostalgic feeling of being away or being somewhere else. 

Dustin: Yeah, and that was the initial criteria, or concept that we wanted to create with Monument Lifestyle. 

Iris: Yeah, it’s funny. So, we have two completely separate businesses. We have Monument Lifestyle, which is a F&B, retail/cafe, which now, we have two outlets. And then we have a clothing line, Duxton and Duxton Kids. We’ve recently realized that Monument, for better or worse, is now somewhat become of like, co-op. in the sense of, we take young entrepreneurs who can’t start their own businesses themselves, but really want to, and have so much hustle, that and we partner with them and we make it so that they can try out their new ventures at Monument because we have a physical brick and mortar and they try out their concepts and they see whether or not it’ll work and whether or not there is growth for it, or like, a future and future investment opportunities in it. So, we’ve done that with our wine program, we’re doing it with a gin bar, which is really exciting, and now we’re even doing it with a new, like, F&B establishment that we’re bringing in for food. It was never meant to be that way, but we as entrepreneurs, I think, we see the other entrepreneurs out there, especially the hustle, and young entrepreneurs, which for F&B, in Singapore is very hard to get investment for. Very hard to get up and going without working for someone else for 20 years, plus. And so, we’re like, okay, if we see these people and we love them and love what they’re doing and what they’re about and feel like we can trust them from the start, then we partner with them from the get-go. And it’s been really exciting because we are now working with our third entrepreneur to get him on brand and it’s been really fun and it’s been really, just really positive all around for both parties. So, it’s really exciting.

Vikram:  Yeah, I love that concept of the co-op, bringing in new ideas, new people, and having them taste what it’s like to be in a retail store. And then the Duxton clothing brand, how’s that going? 

Iris: Oh, it’s so much fun. Let me tell you. At first, we struggled with, how do you run a fashion company in Singapore, that’s based in Singapore? And for better or not, during circuit breaker and COVID actually lots of amazing creative talent came back to Singapore, like, a lot of students who were studying, whether it be in Europe or in the States had to come back. So, we found a plethora of amazing talent, of folks who felt like they couldn’t be their creative outlet here in Singapore and had to go elsewhere. And we brought them together and there’s now been this beautiful fusion of creativity in our clothing line. So, what we’re doing for Duxton is we’ve been doing Duxton stories, we’ve been interviewing different entrepreneurs all over, we’ve been doing different collabs we’ve now become the F&B fashion collab. So, like, anyone who has a really hip F&B joint who wants to do merchandise, they just want to bring their brand out there to the world will come to us and asked to do a collab. So, literally on Monday we’re releasing our first one, which is with Lucali, we’re doing these amazing street hoodies. And then, the following month, we’re releasing this great kimono with Bjorn from Artichoke and Small’s. So, it’s super exciting to see, and then, we have a couple of others in the works, so that’s great. And then for kids’ line, what we’re really celebrating is kids in this modern-day society. And what that means is showing them, who they can be. So, we have a whole series called Fight Like A Girl, and it shows all these amazing female role models that they can be. And so, we were trying to also do something similar for little boys and we were trying to figure it out who is not so macho, macho, like, you have to be Superman to be a hero as a boy. So, instead, we’re just having this series called Conversations With A Kiddo, about having big hearts, or having big feelings, and not being afraid to show them. And so, we’re using these garments as talking pieces that parents can have with their children, but it’s really inspired by this huge creative bubble of amazing young people that came into Singapore during circuit breaker, or came back. And so, I think, we’re so fortunate that came into the world. A lot of them applied to be baristas, and we looked at the resumes and we were, like, holy cow, you’re super talented. This is crazy, and so, it’s just finding the right people to plug in, and see, and bringing out what’s best.  

Vikram: Singapore for me means a lot because I’m moved here, kind of, knowing where it is on the map. But it was accidental, there was no plans to move here, but it means a lot to me because I got married here, I found a girl here, got married. Here, had kids here, started a business here. So, there was a lot of growth and development, personal milestones that I hit. When you both moved here, you were both married, but you didn’t have kids, and you started a business together, your business partner is your husband and wife. So, what’s that been like? Starting a company and working together as a husband and wife, and then, also in the midst of it, having two children and then. Has it been chaos or what’s that experience been like? 

Dustin: I’m already crying. Oh, it’s been a beautiful chaos, I think, we feel fortunate to, one of, have each other, and then, to have the two girls at home, and then, to be working on projects that are physical and tangible. They could come to the store and they can talk to our team and they can try on the clothes that we make and they can taste the food that we serve, and it just makes it less like, work and more like, life. Like, we’re living the way that we would choose to. I feel like, it’s such a fortunate opportunity to be able to do that.  

Iris: People ask us all the time, how have you not killed each other? And sometimes it’s hard, especially like, when you were pregnant with your second kid and you’re still working. But no, it’s really been a blessing, and I think, after my first startup in New York City, I think, I learned really fast, like, how you have to pick a co-founder who you trust intimately because even if it’s not your husband or your wife, your co-founder in any company is essentially your work husband and wife. You’re the other person who are the most intimate with. And so, I think, by having your actual spouse be the person you’re most intimate with both at work and outside of work, it becomes a much easier place to make things happen. The only thing that I would say is, it’s like, making sure that you can draw a line, and have personal space, that where you don’t talk about work. Cause especially with two young kids, our kids are three and one, and then, our businesses like, Monument is three years old, Duxton is two years old. Like, we started all, we had our kids at the same time we had our businesses, so, it was utter chaos. Beautiful, but chaotic. And so, I just think, you have to try to make time for yourself and make rules where you don’t talk about work, when you’re on a date, because you can easily do that or just talk about your children.

Vikram: Yeah. I completely resonate with that because, I work with Anna with our business and I feel the same way, in the sense that it is a really positive thing. And I learned that from Anna’s parents because they worked together for 20 years building a business and you can tell that they still love each other and all of that. So, for them, it worked out really well, and when I first met her parents and I saw them working together, it made me realize that it is possible. It is definitely possible if you have the right person. So, you had kids in Singapore and what’s it been like raising your kids here? Schooling, help, all of that good stuff.

Dustin: Yeah. It’s been a positive experience. It’s been a beautiful experience. I think, I almost feel guilty about the support network that we have here in Singapore, that allows us to, without which I don’t think we would be able to have started Monument Lifestyle or Duxton Kids. I think, having a safe environment where you know that, they’re taken care of at school, and that after school, you can go and hang out with them and then drop them off at home and make sure that the nanny is there and go back to work. We’re lucky to have it, whereas back home, I think, you would rely largely on either family like, grandparents to take care of them or have a nanny that lives in with you also. 

Iris: I think, we knew. It was one of the things that people told us about when we first moved here, is that if you have children, this is one of the most wonderful places to have children because you can afford help. In lots of places in the world, if you have help, it means that you’re super rich or the top 1%, but here, you can have help and actually work and continue your day-to-day job. And it’s affordable, like Marianne, who is our helper as a part of our family, it just becomes so much embedded in your life, so that you’re able to actually continue a business. And I think for us, that’s what is a huge draw and advantage of being in Singapore. Having the help to actually pursue the two businesses that we have. Having kids here it’s been really fascinating, because we are Filipino-American, so, grew up in the States, but like, Asian American and so, very much grew up in very white communities. Maybe, one of only five Asian kids or less in, both of our schools, which is funny because I think that’s what we have in common. And then you come here and they’re all Asian and there is maybe two or three white kids in their school. And then it’s like a funny contradiction of having to explain like,

Vikram: Flipped on its head. 

Iris: Yeah, and also explaining that they’re American, and what that means when they’ve never really, except visiting a couple of times a year ever actually lived there. So, I think for us, what’s really grounding is having Dustin and I have had the same experience growing up and being both Asian American, Filipino-American living in California, going through that experience, especially in professional environments where, like, when I ran a tech startup in New York City, I was Asian American, but female, like, that is unheard of and my co-founder was a white male. Every other tech guy I knew was a white male, and so, I think, having had those experiences together or helping us shape the way our children see themselves, it doesn’t matter if they’re in Singapore and the US, but making sure that they’re confident individuals who know, you can do anything you want. 

Vikram: Yeah, I really liked that because I love how Singapore is so international. There are people from everywhere, every parts of the world live and work here, but yet even myself being an Asian American, I feel a sense of identity here. I feel a sense of belonging, which is hard to come by because I’m very international in the sense, yet I am ethnically Asian American. But here, I feel like I belong, and also for our daughters, they’re mixed. Anna is white, she’s Dutch and the kids are mixed, but in Singapore, seems like, mixed kids is a very common thing. Like, the school she’s in, there’s a bunch of mixed kids. I hope she doesn’t grow up feeling out of place, where she grows up thinking, oh yeah, there is people that look like me. So, that I think is a very interesting component.

Iris: Absolutely, because we go to the States, probably four times a year, because of our manufacturing for a clothing line and seeing our nieces and nephews grow up. They’re amazing, but there’s this inherent cynicism when growing up in the States, I just feel children automatically are told, oh, you can’t do that, or, you’re too young to think like this, or, it’s just a funny way of education. Versus here, I feel like children have more room to breathe, they can be themselves. There are not so many people being like, no, you can’t do that, or that’s such a crazy idea. And so, I think it’s exciting to see where an education that’s so global can take you. 

Vikram: Yeah, the other thing I really like about Singapore in terms of diversity is, I walked down to Chinatown, that’s where Ricks is going to school. So, she’s going to school on top of Chinatown walking through, all the old uncles are there playing chess, it’s a real legit, very local kind of scene. And then, we’re walking past to come back home, and we’re walking past the Indian temple and there’s a mosque, and there’s all of these, culture is all on one street and life goes on seamlessly. And I think, that’s a very unique experience that you don’t find anywhere else. And when I look at your business that you’re building, I feel like, it’s very early, you’re just getting started, what is your long-term vision for the company? And how do you see it evolving over time? 

Dustin: Yeah, I think, the roadmap ahead is always something that we’re trying to figure out, and at the same time, not lose sight of the projects that we have happening right now. So, for Monument Lifestyle, we just last October opened up our second outlet here in Singapore. During a time where, in the middle of COVID and what not. It was, we just feel so lucky to be able to have found the space and then also to have the customer base that have been supporting us all throughout, I think, on the Monument end, it’s up in the air in terms of what the expansion looks like, whether it’s more locations here or possibly abroad, there’s been a few folks that have been wanting to bring it over to other places like Japan and even back home to LA. And I think, what is a nice side effect of everything that’s happening globally is that, it’s almost putting a pause on those opportunities. In a way, that allows us to focus on the here and now within Singapore. So, like Iris mentioned, we’re going to do a collab with someone on the food end, on the F&B side, that will hopefully do really well for both locations. And then for Duxton,

Iris:  For Duxton, it’s been interesting because since launching it, I think two months in, we had folks pretty heavily scouting us for investment, because I think Singapore is really looking for the next fashion investment. It’s something that I think people are trying to figure out which Singapore fashion brand they can bring internationally. And I think, I don’t know, we were in a couple of articles early on, so, people are like, oh, this company. And it’s also named Duxton and we have duxton.com. So, it’s short and you can remember it. But I think, before circuit breaker were very much okay, maybe we’ll entertain taking on investment to help to make it grow faster and globally. But I think since then, we’ve decided because we have such an amazing team that we would rather really invest in the people that we have in our team currently, and just make it a super pack, a cash positive company where you invest internally and you just do it yourself. And so, that’s what we’re trying to do first, if it gets to the point later on that we should expand everywhere else, great. But I think for us, first and foremost, we want to take care of our team and we want to make sure that they’re able to be part of the growth of this company and not just give the growth out to investors. So, I think that’s, and hopefully for Monument side, we get to do more collabs with amazing young entrepreneurs and give them that first step into starting their own businesses. 

Vikram: And I’m guessing in Singapore, you mentioned that getting investment into F&B is difficult which is counter-intuitive, because there’s so much F&B stuff going on, you would think that there would be a lot of capital chasing F&B. Why do you think that is not the case? 

Dustin: I don’t know, I think, investors are looking at other opportunities, maybe. The turnaround with F&B is, along Duxton Road and along other places like, Club Street, whether it was an impact of COVID or not, the turnaround on places and spaces was so quick. You can just count the number of brands or operators that occupied one particular stall that is now empty or is now being occupied by someone new. So, maybe it’s that. It might be that, it’s more of a high-risk gamble.

Iris: It’s definitely high risk. It’s funny because it feels like, in Singapore, in order for you to succeed in F&B, you have to be part of a group. So, right when we opened up shop, three years ago, for almost four years ago, at 75 Duxton, everyone walked in and they were like, so you must be part of Lo and Behold. Like, a hundred percent, we got that so often, and at that point, we didn’t know who Lo and Behold was. So, we were like, excuse me? I don’t know what you’re talking about. 

Dustin: We know who they are now.

Iris: Yes, we know who they are. I just think that, people automatically assume that if you are an F&B and you’re doing well, you have to be part of a group. And so, how else would you get the money and the capital to start in the first place? And how else would you keep going? Because margins are small in F&B, and there is a lot of staffing, there is a lot of turnaround. I think, we read in Straits Times, there was like, 45 F&B restaurants that closed just during the first phase of circuit breaker. And so, I get that it’s a really high stake, but I think, it’s more about finding the right investments with an F&B because there’s so many amazing opportunities that can happen. But I think, people are just scared about the turnaround. 

Vikram: Yeah, and sounds like Singapore has been a pretty good place for you to experiment and start your business. And I remember meeting you guys in Amsterdam and you were scouting of maybe moving to Amsterdam. Did you consider other cities where you might have had started this business? And, or, are you guys planning on maybe, if you were to move somewhere else or if you had the choice to start somewhere else, which cities with those be? 

Dustin: Yeah, so, when we were first pregnant, when Iris was pregnant with our first daughter, that was really the deciding point of where we were going to set up shop. And the factor that brought us over to Singapore was that all our friends who had young kids said, hey, this is a really great place to raise a young family. It’s safe and it’s just overall great and convenient. And so, we’re like, okay, let’s do it out here. And also, the fact that, we felt like, what we were setting up was something more commonplace back home. Because that was the other option was to do it in LA. Like, somewhere along Abbot Kinney or in that neighborhood, Venice Beach. And then the third option was Amsterdam, purely because there is a tax clause or there is an agreement with US and the Netherlands that allows you to set up shop quite easily. So, those were the three options and we ended up doing it here. In terms of new places, there’s always back home, possibly doing it, 

Iris: Not right now, obviously, with the chaos of the world, 

Vikram: And what have been some of your sort of memorable challenges? Moving to a new country, not knowing where it is on the map and starting a business. So, you painted a very rosy picture, which is great, but I’m sure there have been some challenges. 

Iris: Oh, absolutely I think, the challenge is, okay, starting a tech company is something we know. It’s our background. So, that part doesn’t scare us as much as starting an F&B, brick and mortar. So, I think when we were first starting out, from which company do you use for your POS? Like, how do you maneuver, setting stuff up with contractors, with government forms that you have to fill out, with setting up your ACRA, with just getting all the registration and then converting. Because we were EPs (employment pass) with our other companies and converting your EP to your own company, which sounds crazy, but it’s something that you have to do. And so, I think all of those type of things were very, cause we did it by ourselves, we didn’t have investors when we first rolled in and did Monument. And so, I think navigating all of the things to make sure that, one you can live in this country, you filled out all the forms that you need to, cross your T’s dotted your I’s and made sure everything is legal. Like, there is nothing you’re doing, like, we were over, I think, we’re over, are we doing the right thing? Is this, did we miss this? Did we do this? And so, I think that was the thing that we, the biggest hurdle. But luckily, like Dustin said, people in F&B are so humble and so nice and helpful, and it was not that people in startup tech world aren’t, but it’s a different culture altogether of, hey, I’ve made it, you’re trying to make it, let’s make it together. And so, a band of F&B people will come together and tell you like, all the different resources. Which I found really strange at first, like, I was like why are they being so helpful. But actually, this is a beautiful community of people in F&B who are helping each other.

Vikram: Yeah, I resonate with that for sure, because we did a short stint in F&B, a very short stint. And we met a lot of the F&B people and it was just incredible. It’s an amazing community. Okay, and if you were to give advice to anyone listening to this, who might be thinking of moving somewhere in Asia, or to Singapore, what are the things that they should be looking out for, or, research besides where it is on the map. 

Iris: And speak English too.

Dustin: Check and check. Just do it. I think, the way we always see it, because our family would always ask us like, okay where are you going to move next? Or what’s your five-year plan? And we before starting this, could only see as far as two years. Okay, let’s sign on for a two-year contract, we’ll see how it goes, we figure that we could manage to push through any situation for a two-year period and should be okay. And then just take it two years at a time or even one year at a time. In terms of research, it’s really just what you feel, what will make you feel comfortable about taking that leap? So, I think we have a saying between us that, if we think too much about something, we can always talk ourselves out of it. So, you can have paralysis by analysis, by looking into something too much. But if you feel like, it’s something that you want to do and that you would be open to new experiences and challenges, both positive and negative then why not?

Iris: Absolutely. It’s funny because I think throughout the time that we’ve been running Monument and Duxton, and even in New York City, I’ve had friends ask if we can review their business plans and people have 20 pages to a 100 pages business plan. And that sounds great, but really, if you want to do something, you’re going to make it happen no matter what business plan you put together. And so, I think, like what Justin said, don’t overanalyze it. If you really want to do it, figure out how to make it work and make it work. And I think, Singapore has plenty of opportunities for you to do that. I think maybe not right now, because I don’t know how many people they’re letting in currently with COVID and just how the world is working at the moment, but if you can, and if you see an opportunity in Southeast Asia, then Singapore is a great place to start. 

Vikram: All right, there, you have it, folks. Solid advice from Dustin and Iris, just do it. Don’t overanalyze. Watch out for what they’re doing. It’s amazing. It’s monumentlifestyle.com and Duxton, D U X T O N.com. I really love what they’re doing and I feel they’re just getting started and this is going to be an awesome brand and company. Where can people find you on Twitter or Instagram? 

Iris: Instagram would be the best way. Our social media team for both companies, they don’t believe in Twitter so much. Just so you know, young people apparently don’t use Twitter. So, we are on Instagram 

Vikram: And Tik Tok.

Iris: You have to be really young to be on Tik Tok.

Vikram: All right. I know you guys have a hard stop. Thank you so much.

Iris:  Thank you for having us. 

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